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In order to offer complete gutter systems and do it all in-house you need some additional equipment to supplement your seamless gutter machine. With appropriate equipment you can make both downspout pipe and elbows.

Portable Downspout Machine

If you want a portable downspout machine that you can take to the job site, you are rather limited in your choice: Liberty Seamless is the only U.S. company which makes such a machine. Their portable downspout machine is comparable in size to a seamless gutter machine. It can produce 2×3 or 3×4 downspouts from aluminum, steel, or copper stock. For 4×5 or round downspouts no ‘portable’ machines are produced in the U.S. If you want to make those kinds of downspouts you will have to buy an industrial-grade machine designed to work in your shop, rather than at the job site.

Industrial Downspout Machines

Several U.S. companies produce industrial-grade machines for roll forming downspouts. These include Artos, Jobsite, and Knudson. These machines are larger, heavier, and more expensive than portable roll forming machines. They are also capable of significantly higher production rates.

Artos produces standard pipe machines which can produce round pipe in sizes from 2-inch to 6-inch diameters, corrugated round pipe in 3-inch or 4-inch sizes, square corrugated pipe in 3-, 4-, or 5-inch sizes and 2×3 or 3×4 plain square pipe. They can handle mild steel, aluminum, or copper material and produce pipe at speeds up to 165 feet per minute. (Your seamless gutter machine probably produces about 30 feet per minute.)

Jobsite’s CTMe Series machines can produce 2×3, 3×3, 3×4, or 4×5 profile downspouts, as well as elbows. They can produce downspout at about 115 feet per minute. Production rates are up to 600 10-foot sections per hour. Changeover from pipe mode to elbow mode takes only a few minutes. Production rates for elbows are 837 per hour. Jobsite also produces the RTMe Series machines, which can produce round downspouts and elbows in 3- or 4-inch sizes. Production rates are comparable to the CTMe Series rates.

Liberty Seamless manufactures two different kinds of pipe machines that have a more modest production capability. Their Stationary machine can produce round pipe in 3- or 4-inch sizes. This machine uses a 1hp motor configured for 110 or 220 volts. It can run aluminum, steel, or copper. Production rates are about 30 feet per minute. The Industrial machine is available to produce round or industrial round pipe in 3- or 4-inch sizes, or 2×3, 3×4, or 4×5 downspout. The unit has a 4hp main motor plus a 7.5hp motor for hydraulics. It produces downspout at 25 to 33 feet per minute. This is definitely not a portable unit.

Elbow Machines

There are also few U.S. manufacturers producing elbow machines. Available U.S. manufacturers include Jobsite, Knudson, and Liberty.

Jobsite’s two industrial machine models, which were discussed above, include elbow-forming functions: the CTMe Series for rectangular pipe and the RTMe Series for round pipe. Jobsite also produces a portable elbow-forming machine, the ELF, which can produce 2×3 or 3×4 elbows. It is powered by a 1-1/2hp, 110V motor. The unit weighs 575 pounds.

Knudson markets a manually operated elbow machine, the EL-2002. It can produce 2×3 or 3×4 standard elbows, 3×4 small, 2.625- square, 3- square or custom elbows. Production rate is 1 elbow per minute or better. Tool changeover takes about 10 minutes. The unit fits inside a 27- cube and weighs 90 pounds including 4 sets of tools.

Liberty makes several different models of round elbow machines. The EL series comes in 3 inch, 4 inch, or ‘combo’ models. The unit is relatively small, standing only 24 inches high and weighing 575 pounds. It is powered by a 1.5hp, 110V motor. The ELI series is a larger, heavier machine. It stands 5′ 6″ high, weighs 1,000 pounds, and is powered by a 3hp motor.

There are also foreign manufacturers that produce equipment of these types. As with any item produced outside the U.S., there are the issues of accessibility to service, parts, and support. A reliable, experienced U.S. dealer can do much to assure timely support for equipment from foreign sources.

In planning your business you must consider the options of buying material from a supplier vs. making items with your own equipment. In the area of downspouts and elbows, you need to scope the volume of the business you are doing and evaluate the payback you might get from investing in your own equipment rather than buying your parts from a supplier. In particular, the investment required for an industrial-grade downspout machine is substantial and needs to be carefully evaluated.

Anyone who is going to operate a gutter machine must first read and understand the manual provided by the machine manufacturer. The first reason is the safety of the operator-the manual will guide you on safe practices that will help you avoid personal injury. The second reason is to properly operate the machine so it will make good quality gutter and avoid damage to the machine.

A seamless gutter machine typically produces about 30 feet of gutter per minute. It usually only needs to be operated a few minutes per day to produce the gutter required for that day’s work.

In most cases the gutter machine will have been transported to the worksite with a coil of material on and threaded through the machine. Remove the cover tarp from the machine, if present. Verify that the coil of material in the machine is correct for the job to be run.

Obtain an electric extension cord of the necessary length and appropriate size (based on the line cord length and load) to reach electric power. Verify that the power circuit has adequate capacity. Connect the power cord through a ground fault detector, if possible. If connecting directly to a generator, verify that the generator capacity is sufficient to run the gutter machine.

The operator should not wear any loose-fitting clothing, jewelry, et cetera, which could be caught in moving parts of the machine. Safety goggles and gloves are highly recommended.

Because of the danger of electric shock, and the possibility of damage to the machine, it is recommended that the gutter machine never be operated when rain or snow can fall onto the machine unless the machine is mounted inside an enclosed trailer or truck.

Before starting operation, the operator should: 1 Visually check the electrical components and wiring to assure there are no signs of any heat discoloration or damage. 2 Be sure all safety covers on the gutter machine are closed and secured in place to prevent dirt, dust, and foreign objects from entering the machine. 3 Remove the spool retaining pin from the spool of coil that is threaded through the machine. 4 Verify that the Forward/Reverse switch is in the Forward position. 5 Position runout stands at 8- to 10-foot intervals to support the gutter that will come out of the machine. 6 Lubricate the blade of the shear with the lubricant recommended in the operation manual. DO NOT use WD-40 on the shear blade or the machine unless specifically recommended by the operation manual.

Start the machine and run out enough gutter to clear all material that was in the machine path during transport. Cut off and discard.

Run about ten feet of gutter through the machine as a check sample. Stop the machine and cut off the piece. Inspect the gutter carefully for: 1 Proper shape 2 Paint damage (peeling, flaking, scratches, etc.) 3 Surface imperfections from the rollers 4 Any other irregularities

If any problems are detected, diagnose the cause and make corrections before proceeding. If adjustments are required, shut off the machine and disconnect the power line.

Incorrect alignment of material in the machine is the most common cause of problems with a gutter machine. This can result from: 1 Incorrect adjustment of the entrance guides 2 Incorrect adjustment of the stations

Be sure that necessary adjustments are performed by someone who has been properly trained in how to adjust the machine.

When it is verified that the gutter sample meets the job requirements, proceed with the production of the necessary pieces of gutter.

The operator should learn what the machine sounds like when running properly and make a practice of listening to the machine when running gutter. If the machine begins making unusual sounds it probably means something is wrong and needs to be cleaned, lubricated, adjusted, or repaired.

Changing Spools

If it is necessary to change the material to be run (for instance, because of paint color requirements): 1 Make sure the loading area is clean and free of debris. 2 Cut the existing material between the spool and the entrance guide system. 3 Install the spool retaining pin. 4 Run the end piece of material out of the machine. Discard this piece. 5 If the alternate material coil is already on another spool on the spool rack, remove its spool retaining ring and proceed with threading, as below, according to the operation manual. 6 If the coil must be removed and a new coil assembled to the machine, follow the instructions of the operating manual.

CAUTION A COIL OF MATERIAL IS EXTREMELY HEAVY. USE APPROPRIATE LIFTING EQUIPMENT AND ASSISTANCE, AS REQUIRED. 1 Pull the end of the coil off the spool. Cut both of the leading corners of the material at 45 angles, approximately 3 inches in from the corner. Insert the trimmed edges of the material into the entrance guides and push forward to the first drive rollers. Jog the material through the machine. Stop at each station to verify that the material is feeding properly and running smoothly through the rollers. If any problems occur, reverse the material a short distance, determine the problem, and clear the obstruction. 2 Jog the material until the end has passed the shear. 3 If any problems developed, after they have been corrected, run the distorted material out of the machine, cut it off, and discard. 4 Close and secure all safety and access covers before proceeding to produce gutter.

When the required gutter has been produced, turn off the machine, disconnect it from the electric power circuit, and reinstall the spool retaining pin. If this is the last run before transporting the machine to a new site, confirm that material is threaded through the entire machine to protect the rollers from roller-to-roller impact damage. (This does not apply for New Tech Machinery units which can be safely transported without coil material between the rollers.) Cover the machine with a tarp to protect it from external debris and weather.

DO NOT DUMP OLD GUTTER OR DOWNSPOUTS FROM A CUSTOMER’S LOCATION INSIDE THE TRUCK OR TRAILER WITH THE GUTTER MACHINE. DIRT, LEAVES, AND OTHER DEBRIS MAY GET ON OR IN THE GUTTER MACHINE AND CAUSE DAMAGE.

You are starting a seamless gutter business. You have carefully analyzed the market in which you are going to compete. You have decided what type of gutter you want to market. You have identified the companies that make the kind of seamless gutter machine you want to buy. You have researched their web sites, talked to the dealers, and gotten quotes. The costs are a bit higher than you expected, but you are not deterred. What next?

Somewhere in the back of your mind a question arises: “Can’t I save some money by buying a used machine?”

New Gutter Machine

A shiny new gutter machine includes all the latest technologies and improvements, which can help make your business productive and profitable. It has up-to-the-minute everything. It is new and has 100% of its useful life, waiting for you to use it. It has the advantage of having just been assembled, run, and tested by the skilled technicians of the company that designed it, those who know best how it is supposed to work. There are no skeletons in its closet, no worn-out parts, no hidden damage.

In addition, assistance is available from the factory or dealer in getting it going. Operating and maintenance manuals are available to assist you in training your personnel in mounting, loading, adjustment, operation, and maintenance. And, like those guys in the cell phone ads who are “the Network” behind the cell phone service, you have the dealer and the factory standing there, behind the product, and they want you to be a satisfied customer.

And there is the warranty, the factory’s guarantee that there is nothing wrong, and the promise that, if there is, they will fix it: 3 years on parts, 1 year on labor, lifetime warranty on selected parts.

But, all this comes at a price. Even if they have a sale, the price tag looks big-and you wonder

Used Gutter Machines

You check the Internet and discover a number of listings for used gutter machines, a couple of them for the kind of machine you want. And the prices are definitely less than for a new machine. What can you get, and what do you risk?

Do you have the knowledge, experience, and skill necessary to evaluate a used seamless gutter machine? If not, do you have access to someone whom you trust who does? Will they help you (either as a favor or as a paid consultant)?

The used machine is not going to have the current level of technology represented by the new machine. If the used machine is of fairly recent manufacture, the difference may be small. The older the machine, the greater the technology gap. This gap may not be meaningful in your intended business-or it may.

In addition to inherent productivity issues, the machine has undoubtedly suffered some wear and lost some amount of its total life potential-no one knows how much. However, a good machine that is given careful maintenance, cleaning, and service is capable of operating well for twenty or thirty years or more. Much of its life may still be there, waiting to serve you.

Maintenance and service are described by many as the keystone of machine life and continuing successful operation. However, if the current (or some previous) owner has not been rigorous in these areas, there may be hidden damage. Some people seriously abuse their machines, significantly shortening the machine’s total life capability. You don’t know.

When your used machine requires service, repair, or parts you are still dependent on the services of the original manufacturer or his local dealer. So, even in selecting a used machine, you must be aware of the accessibility and reputation of the original equipment manufacturer.

It is crucial to run some stock through the machine and inspect the resulting gutter very carefully. This may reveal problems. Various kinds of hidden problems with adjustments or roller damage may lead to an improper gutter shape, damage to the paint on the material stock or other visible defects on the gutter.

On the other hand, if parts have been damaged, but not yet to the breaking point, the fault may not be detectable. A current owner/user is unlikely to agree to any kind of warranty for his used machine. Manuals may (or may not) be available. If the machine is quite old there may even be problems obtaining parts.

Clearly there is an increased risk in buying a used machine. There may be hidden damage the owner does not disclose. There may even be hidden damage of which the current owner is unaware. And the risk is with the buyer. So it is extremely important to have the equipment examined by a competent expert before buying.

Still, there are always used gutter machines that come on the market that still have much useful life in them and that represent good value to the knowledgeable buyer. It is particularly valuable if you know the seller well and know him or her to be reliable, honest, and forthright in their business dealings.

Another possible route is to purchase a used machine that has been refurbished by the manufacturer or a qualified repair and maintenance shop. They represent some middle ground, with a higher assurance of condition and functionality and lower risk to the buyer.

In the end, the decision is still yours. You have to evaluate the factors and decide how you will spend your money. New or used or reconditioned? The risk is yours, as are the profits.

Back in 1929 Cole Porter wrote a song called “What Is This Thing Called Love” for the Broadway musical Wake Up and Dream. Many people have recorded it, including Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, and Wynton Marsalis.

Making a giant leap from consideration of the sublime to the eminently practical, let’s ask, “What is this thing called seamless gutter?” and see if it could be a stepping-stone to the realization of your dream of independence and self-employment with a company of your own.

Rain gutters have been a part of building design for centuries. They are positioned below the eaves of the roof. For this reason they are sometimes called eave troughs. When rain runs down your roof it will fall to the ground, possibly dripping on the exterior walls, perhaps splattering mud, maybe leaking into your basement, and very likely eroding your yard.

All of this can be fixed with a rain gutter or eave trough. It collects the water as it runs off the roof, directs it down through a downspout, and dumps it onto splash blocks on the ground that direct the water away from your house.

Virtually every home needs rain gutters. They were originally made of wood. Later they were constructed of galvanized steel or copper, usually in a half-round or U-style gutter. For some time now the most popular material has been aluminum and the most popular shape the K-Style gutter.

If you have experience in the construction business, or if you have good manual skills, you can probably learn how to make and install residential gutter systems.

Sections of gutter and downspouts were once made from sheet metal and assembled as a gutter system to a house. The ends of sections were joined together with snap-in-place connectors. However, every such seam was potentially a leak point.

About 100 years ago a technology called roll forming was developed. It allowed thin sheets of metal to be formed into complex shapes. Almost 60 years ago people began applying roll forming to the manufacture of rain gutters. After the development of the seamless gutter machine it was possible to make a section of gutter of whatever length was needed, thereby eliminating the seams or joints between the ends of sections. The seamless rain gutter was born.

Gutter material is sold in coils. For example, aluminum stock is available in various thicknesses from 0.019 inch to 0.032 inch and is painted on one side. A coil will typically weigh in the range of 300 to 400 pounds or more. It is mounted on the portable gutter machine, which is 8- to 10-feet long and is normally installed inside a truck, van, or trailer and brought to the worksite.

The drive system of the gutter machine pulls the flat material through a series of stages. At each stage rollers and guides inside the machine shape, bend, and fold the material. Out the end comes a fully formed gutter at about 30 feet per minute. At that speed you can produce the seamless gutter you need for an average job in 4 minutes.

Although the material is fairly thin, the finished gutter is quite strong because of its shape. Think about what happens to paper when you turn it into a straw. Many parents have helped their school-age children build model bridges out of paper soda straws.

There are several markets that a seamless gutter contractor can serve-one is new construction, another is remodeling. Established contractors in the remodeling business average about 2.5 gutter jobs per day. With one crew, working 48 weeks per year (no weekends) that’s as many as 600 jobs per year.

Now, a contractor can buy his gutter, downspouts, and elbows from somebody else, and just do the installation, or he/she can buy their own seamless gutter machine and make his/her own seamless gutter. The cost per foot to make seamless gutter with your own machine is significantly less than the cost of buying equivalent material from a supplier.

Industry data indicates that the average American house requires about 120 feet of rain gutter. The trend is toward larger homes which require even more. In an article authored by Mark Ward, Sr., he quotes a financial projection done by a sales specialist for one of the gutter machine companies. He concludes that the savings in your material cost for “make-your-own” vs. “buy from a supplier” gutter would pay for the cost of a new $6,800 machine in 30 to 37 working days.

As a contractor you can probably sell galvanized seamless gutter to your customers for about $3 to $5 per linear foot. Aluminum gutter will probably sell for between $5 and $9 per linear foot. At a median value for aluminum gutter of $7/foot x 120 feet/job x 2.5 jobs per day-that equals $2,100 per day potential gross income for one crew.

Starting any business is a complicated process and involves many factors. You have to sell your product, deliver a quality product on time, and successfully hire and supervise other people. Also, the construction business involves both seasonal and cyclic variation-you aren’t going to be able to have your crew fully occupied 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year. But if you learn the trade, work hard at selling your product, and deliver a quality product, this is a business in which you can develop and prosper. You can truly “roll metal into money” with your own seamless gutter business. Give it some consideration in your search for your tomorrow.

Starting a new business isn’t hard thousands upon thousands of people do it every year. Every one of these new companies expects success. Their owners certainly wouldn’t start with the intention of failing. However, the Small Business Administration says that two years after startup, one-third of all new businesses are out of business. At the five-year mark 56% of them are gone.

So, starting isn’t hard succeeding is what is hard. Before you start a business you need to decide that you are going to be part of that 44%, learn why and how they succeed, and take the necessary steps to be sure that your success happens.

A major reason many new businesses fail is unrealistic expectations about what the business will produce. Their owners dream that they will make a ton of money, work fewer hours per week, and have to answer to no one.

The important point is that thousands of people have started their own successful small businesses, enjoyed a comfortable lifestyle, supported their families, and given good jobs to the people who worked for them. But, as the anvil salesman in The Music Man said, ‘You gotta know the territory.’

Do you know your territory and market You must know how to make and install quality seamless gutters. You must know how to estimate and price your product in a competitive market. You must be able to hire and supervise other people who will work for you. You must be able to market your company and sell contractors or homeowners on buying your services. You must be able to manage a business.

These are all things you can learn, if you are willing to work at it. Often regional junior colleges offer courses specifically aimed at people who want to learn how to start and run their own business.

The seamless gutter field is not a new technology just being introduced into the housing market. It is a mature product with a mature market. In virtually every region there are already people doing this kind of work.

How are you going to find a place for your company in the market? How are you going to differentiate your company? Lower prices (and lower profits), better quality, some specialized market niche? What? And how?

A common route is to acquire the necessary equipment and tools and set yourself up in business on a small scale. A good way to start is to sit down, think about what you want to do, and develop a business plan. This will force to think about various business issues and make some very specific decisions instead of just having vague ideas in your head. These include:

1 What is your business concept? What is the market you are going to try to serve? How will you structure your business? What is your strategy for success? Who will do the marketing and the scheduling? Who will do the work? Will you work alone, or hire employees to assist with the work? Who will pay the bills, keep the books, write the checks, file the tax reports? Who will handle these chores if you get sick or injured?

2 What is the current marketplace, how big is it? Who are the customers and your competition? How much of the market do you think you can win? How will you do it?

3 How much money will it take? What equipment do you have to buy (trucks, trailers, gutter machine, other machines, tools, handling equipment, office equipment, supplies, gutter coil, other inventory, etc.)? How rapidly can you capture jobs and start earning income? How rapidly can you grow your customer base and income? How will you pay yourself and your employees during the startup period? Are your assumptions realistic?

Who do you see as your customers? General contractors? Roofing contractors? Homeowners? How are you going to make them aware of your company and get their business? How will you publicize your company? Advertising, flyers, signs, radio, TV, direct contact selling?

Realistically, it will take a while to capture business for your new company. You must have the capital available to cover expenses (including your payroll and your own living expenses) during this ramp-up period. If the housing industry is currently on the rise, and existing gutter production capacity in your area is unable to meet the growing demand, you may rapidly capture business and achieve a good cash flow. What happens if the housing market slows down? How will it affect you? You might want to ask your financial adviser to perform a sensitivity analysis to forecast how a downturn in the building market might affect your business income and your ability to pay the monthly bills.

You will need the help of a lawyer to determine the business structure (sole proprietorship, partnership, corporation) and handle the legal issues of setting up the business, and an accountant or tax adviser to help you make decisions regarding accounting procedures and the federal, state, and local tax issues. What about Workmen’s Compensation and general business insurance? What about licenses?

And then there is a finance company to obtain the loans required to support your purchase of equipment and your business operations during the startup period and beyond. And, if you are married, you will undoubtedly need the strong support of your spouse.

Starting a business is a complex process, but thousands of other entrepreneurs have done it and are part of the 44% living a comfortable life running their own businesses and making their contribution to the economy of these United States. Before you jump in, do your homework but come on in, the water’s fine.

In purchasing a new seamless gutter machine you have probably invested somewhere in the range of $6,000 to $15,000, depending on the type selected. If you have listened to what the dealers have probably told you, you understand that the machine in capable of lasting for at least 20 years, and maybe for 30 years or more, in active use. You may also have heard service personnel tell horror stories about machines that had to be replaced in 10 years because of severe abuse by the operators. What is the key difference? Tender loving care.

In an article published by Construction Management on their web site, Fritz Batz, service manager of Knudson Manufacturing, is quoted as saying, “The most successful gutter companies transport their gutter machines in an enclosed trailer, truck, or van.” The reason for that success is keeping the machine CLEAN and DRY. Every other gutter machine manufacturer also stresses the importance of keeping the interior of their machines clean.

Foreign Object Damage

The nemesis is foreign objects-any kind of foreign objects. Did you ever see anyone knock over a cup of coffee or pop on a desk? Think of that coffee or sugar rich soda running through the electric motor or controls of your $15,000 combination gutter machine. What about a wrench or pair of cutters that was on the machine and got bumped and fell into it? Is there ever any construction site debris and waste around? Things like nails, screws, bits of concrete, etc.? Even paint chips that have flaked off a gutter because of severe maladjustment of the machine can damage a roller. That decking screw making a quick trip through your gutter machine can do $1,000 to $2,000 worth of damage in seconds. BEWARE!

AN ENCLOSED VEHICLE

What do you need to do, and what do you get? Installing your gutter machine in an enclosed truck, van, or trailer achieves two things. You can keep all road and jobsite dirt and debris off and out of the machine. Of course, this will only work if the floor of the vehicle is free of cracks and openings, so be sure the floor is tight. This kind of vehicle will also keep your machine out of rain, snow, sleet, and wind. The floor of the vehicle must also be flat to avoid distorting the frame of the machine when you bolt it down.

A less desirable choice would be an open trailer or open truck bed. If you decide to go this route you are risking more rapid wear on the machine, but perhaps your current finances will not support an enclosed vehicle. In that case be sure the bed is tight to prevent road dust from rising up through the bed and into the machine. Also, purchase and use a good tarp to cover the machine during transport and when not in use.

TRAINED PERSONNEL

Train all the people who will operate the machine and be sure they understand and follow the recommended procedures. Convince everyone that dirt and debris are very damaging to the machine and must be avoided. Make it a rule that all covers always be kept closed except when working inside the machine.

Get them to listen to the machine when it is running, learn what it sounds like, and be alert to any unusual sounds or noises when running gutter. Strange noises usually signal a problem that requires immediate attention.

LUBRICATION, CLEANING, AND PREVENTIVE MAINTENENACE

Train your personnel to perform inspections and lubrication of the machine at specified intervals. It is recommended that the electrical components be inspected for looseness, discoloration, and possible damage daily. Lubricate the shear blade daily with the recommended lubricant. For all lubrication tasks use those lubricants specifically recommended by the machine manufacturer.

Every week you should lubricate the chains with the recommended lubricant. Check the chains for proper tension and adjust them if required. While you have the covers open, look around for anything that is out of place (like dust, dirt, or that jackknife you have been missing).

The inside of your machine should be regularly cleaned. Monthly cleaning is recommended by some manufacturers. Vacuum or blow out any foreign matter. Inspect and clean the guides and rollers. Look for any burrs or buildups of material. Clean away any such buildups with an appropriate solvent.

AVOID HAULING OLD GUTTER

Frequently the customer wants you to remove his old gutter from the site. Accomplish this in some other way than setting the old gutter pieces next to your gutter machine inside the truck, van, or trailer. The old gutters are often coated with dirt and debris which can vibrate off during transport, migrate onto your machine, and accelerate wear.

IN-HOUSE EXPERT

At least one person should be your in-house expert on the machine. Some manufacturers recommend someone (probably the owner) learn from the manufacturer or the dealer how to adjust the machine. However, once you know, resist the temptation to constantly fiddle with the adjustments.

FACTORY/DEALER SUPPORT

When something goes wrong, get an expert who really knows what to do and get your machine fixed promptly. This is most likely to be support personnel from a regional dealer. Prompt repair or adjustment will keep your machine in top condition and keep your crews working on the job with a minimum of interruptions and delays.

Occasionally you hear about a machine that was manufactured in the 1960s and is still making gutter. While you might not get 40+ years out of your machine, with good maintenance and careful use your machine will remain in excellent condition, with a good resale value for many years.